Many thanks for the brand new offer that i had not viewed ahead of

I’m not sure should you have access to Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Ancestry or not, since it is actually written just like the a reference to have People in the us having colonial ancestors out of Plantagenet ancestry. The guy brings among his proofs one to Joanna is actually brand new mommy of Gwladus Ddu the fact that Llewelyn provided brand new functions out-of Knighton and you can Norton castles in Shropshire so you’re able to Ralph Mortimer when he and you may Gwladus had been married. It could have been illegal to have Llewelyn to offer Joanna’s possessions to help you a keen illegitimate daughter (otherwise person who was not an infant from Joanna). This new properties from Norton and you will Knighton remained from the Mortimer household members after that. This new quotation are, “When the new King give Homes so you’re able to a guy having good woman out-of his kindred inside honest matrimony, plus the woman dyeth in the place of procedure, the guy regarding the Kings circumstances shall maybe not hold it having his lifestyle, because woman caused the the brand new gift.” To put it differently, this new characteristics would have reverted returning to brand new top in advance of they would have been made available to an infant who was simply perhaps not Joanna’s.

Hey, Marilyn, I did not get access to the latest Plantaganet Origins from the Doug Richardson, however, performed have access to many discussions related to him and his theories together with other genealogists (certain for your, but the majority of plus against). I think, as i produced in my personal past report, one to exactly what swings it for me(Joanna as the mommy out-of Gwladus), is the import of your own functions you discuss in order to Ralph de Mortimer up on their ed two of the people ‘John’ and you will ‘Joan.’ I can not suppose in the event that Gwladus was the fresh ded their particular college students hence. Inspite of the arguments amongst the eminent genealogists I mention a lot more than, there clearly was a general consensus you to definitely Gwladus Ddu shall be fairly identified as the new child off Llywelyn ab Iorwerth because of the Joanna, daughter (subsequently legitimised) away from John, Queen regarding The united kingdomt. I’d like to bring this possible opportunity to accept Sharon (within the an email in my experience) one Llywelyn’s child Gwenllian is actually of the Tangwystyl and never Joanna, and thus getting blood brother so you’re able to Gruffudd. We foot so it partially to the today’s checklist utilized in ‘Regal or other Historical emails Illustrative of your own rule regarding Henry 111,’ edited from the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step one. Toward profiles 500-503 is the transcript out-of a unique page old Marshall, Earl off Pembroke, in order to Queen Henry 111. Contained in this page, Marshall talks about their siege of the castles off Crum, Kilmore and you can O’Realy. He lists the people he found in the castle O’Realy when it surrendered, it integrated: “…uxor Wilelmi de Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de- patre et matre, mais aussi uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, mais aussi mater dictorum Willelmi et Thomae ….” I’m advised this implies that you will find here Gwenllian, child away from Prince llywelyn, exactly who seems to be titled ‘sister of Gruffudd.’ As we know Gruffudd as the fresh illegitimate child regarding Llywelyn, it is pulled you to definitely ‘de- patre ainsi que matre’ ensures that Gwenllian and Gruffudd was basically complete bloodstream sister and you may sibling. Got Gwenllian already been Joanna’s daughter and therefore King Henry’s Kyiv sexy hot girls niece, seriously Marshall would have stated thereon facts? So it inability out of de- Lacy’s wife once the king’s relative, is actually pulled as close certain facts that Gwenllian was not the new child of king’s sister Joanna.

These types of qualities were part of Joanna’s maritagium of their own father Queen John

Ken: Thank you for you to definitely reference to Gwenllian. I am not a specialist genealogist, however, I actually do a great amount of look on my own traces. In my opinion a number of the “pros” are extremely envious and you will angry each and every other (at the very least evidently ways in a few of the things it post). There are issues that we’re simply not likely to discover with full confidence regarding the members of the brand new MA because they don’t remain public record information including i manage today, therefore genealogists and you can historians need to use their utmost view into the sorting one thing aside. In fact, public record information are a fairly “new” concept – many states within the usa don’t continue records out-of births and you can deaths before very early 1900’s. I fall into multiple descent societies where I’ve had so you can show 11 otherwise several years, and you can believe me it is hard. Thus i really appreciate the trouble of evaluating MA ancestors. (While the sad question is the fact that facts that exist into MA is of royalty and you can nobility – absolutely nothing at all into common anybody).